No smoking at VHS

I am shocked that this has to be said but.Please don’t smoke any nicotine products inside VHS’s building. If you are caught smoking in the build you will be asked to leave.

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Not sure I agree that this applies to eCigs, myself. I don’t use mine in public spaces as a courtesy but I don’t see it as a problem.

Yes, like the rest of the world, ecigs are in a grey area. There’s at least one member who used them regularly at the bunker.

ps. don’t smoke non-nicotine products in the building either, smoke is smoke (yes, I’ve been to the hooka places, it’s still smoke).

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Thank you for having the courtesy to smoke yours outside, @miststlkr. It is
appreciated.

If we’re looking for a precedent, It turns out that Vancouver City Council
has weighed in on the matter:

B.C. to restrict use and sale of e-cigarettes

VICTORIA – B.C. is banning the sale of electronic cigarettes to minors and
forbidding their use in buildings across the province, similar to tobacco
products.

Vancouver city councillors voted unanimously this week to ban e-cigarettes
in public spaces and the sale of the devices to minors

Using an e-cigarette, called vaping, will be forbidden inside all public
buildings, including bars, restaurants, coffee shops, recreation centres,
workplaces, hospitals, schools, movie theatres and most other spaces where
traditional smoking is banned.

I don’t know where VHS falls in this list of public buildings, but I
wouldn’t want to be on the wrong side of a fine if someone complains.

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They said they would but without setting any form of effective date. They are not currently illegal. There is no grey area.

I don’t see any need to get into an argument about it here but to me:

  1. They produce an aerosol of who knows what with unknown health implications
  2. They have nothing to do with making that might justify an exception

CoV Bylaw 9535’s inclusion of “electronic smoking device” in their definition of smoking probably includes e-cigs. I know e-cig users would contest this, but it seems to be the intent. Regardless of whether folks feel that using them in the space is appropriate, it would be sensible to heed the City’s (and province’s) stated desire to ban their use in public spaces.

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The carrier liquid is glycerin, not “who knows what” and it has just as much to do with making as beer does. If we want to claim that they aren’t allowed because we fall under one of the organizations you mentioned above, then bringing alcohol into the space is verboten as well. PLUS we are surrounded by dangerous tools at the space.

I’m not saying one way or the other but It is absolutely not one members place to make a blanket decree like that.

Most of my eCig juices are nicotine free. By this proposal they are still fine.

As far as I understand it, since it is a legal grey area, there is no labelling requirement for ingredients. Beyond the carrier and general makeup, I don’t think it is possible to know exactly what is in that stuff.

Beer is not an aerosol I would be inhaling when someone else is consuming it. I will leave it at that.

I “smoke” my ecig at the space. I don’t mind taking it outside if people see a problem with it.

Sorry, Tom, but that’s not true. There is no “smoke” generated by ecigs. Iit’s not smoke, only vapour. There is no chemical reaction taking place, only phase change of a liquid to a vapour.

So you know my ecig consists of propylene glycol,vegetable glycerin, artifical flavouring and nicotine. When propylene gylcol and vegetable glycerin get hot they turn into a vapour, like steam, and act as a carrier for the flavouring and nicotine. These ingredient are the same ones used for smoke machines, minus the nicotine. All of these things have been approved by Health Canada with the exception of the nicotine. However Nictoine has been approved to be used in other products, like nicotine gum. Cancer isn’t one of the side effects of people chewing nicotine gum.

Typically I smoke 6mg nicotine which is the lowest you can get. The bio-availability of nictoine is SUPER high, and 99% of the nicotine gets absorbed by your lungs. So the level of nicotine in “second hand smokers” is a super minute amount that wouldn’t even be detectable.

Further more, there are insufficient studies on nicotine by itself to make the claim that it is either bad for you or good for you. Right now it’s in a state where there is insufficient evidence to support the claim that it is safe.

As it stands there is no scientific evidence to support any claim that there would be or could be negative effects associated with the second hand vapour. The bad stigma and concerns about health risks have no scientific backing.

But whatever the reason is, like if you don’t believe in science or that your just lashing out at me for opposing your proposal, I’ll take it out side.

If this truly is a concern about health I’d imagine that fumes from all the soldering workshops be bigger concern. Because not only are those health risks be proven scientifically, they are much worse.

I imagine the fumes from the lazercutter be a WAY bigger issue.

Also, does this mean @Rob_MacKenzie should stop messing around with that smoke machine we have the space because you don’t feel comfortable with the vapour it produces?

Because if the issue is just with nicotine I highly suggest you stop eating tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, drink green or black tea, peppers or cauliflower.

Here is a study on nicotine levels in vegetables. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308053290619

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I just hate it when people use science to justify their position by
only cherry picking the data in their favour.

Please show some studies that validate your contention that e cigarettes are
actually safe. If you are going to play the “Science is on my side” card,
you better be willing to back that up with facts.

Health Canada has no such info I can find. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist,
just that it’s doesn’t come up when searching for “e cigarette” on their
site.

Here’s one link I get when searching the Health Canada site

Based on the links I can find at the Health Canada site, there’s no evidence
that they are safe. On the contrary the WHO recommended that they be more
highly regulated due to safety issues, you can read the full report here

http://apps.who.int/gb/fctc/PDF/cop6/FCTC_COP6_10Rev1-en.pdf

As to safety of other stuff at the space, like soldering and such, I agree,
many of those are toxic, choose your poison.

That is why, like anything else, you buy from a trusted supplier. You wouldn’t buy vitamins in an unmarked baggie from Dude In A Van In The Alley for exactly the same reason…

This has to go both ways, there was an unsubstantiated claim that they are dangerous to the non-user. That’s pure FUD.

Me too, that’s why I explicitly said I am not claiming that.

So, what evidence do you have? And what are you claiming? Got any facts?

Its okay, unlike some people, I’m able to make some compromises and be a little reasonable.

That being said I do not mind taking it outside if it makes you feel uncomfortable, that’s a totally reasonable request.

@toma misfire I was referring to dope and herbals. I personally have no problem with ecigs and don’t actually consider using them to be “smoking”. I asked the question above in the hope ecigs would be ok (without naming you). I’ve been around you smoking ecigs for nearly two years, I would have said something if I cared. Peace man, smoke is evil, I never said ecigs make smoke.

Oh, I thought you were mistaken, and it turns out I was mistaken. Heh, all is good.

I think we can all agree that e-cigs are vastly more pleasant to be around than regular cigarettes, and that e-cig vapors are much less dangerous as well. But regardless of the health implications, we must recognize that permitting vaping in public spaces legitimizes nicotine consumption in ways that even many smokers aren’t comfortable with.

If you’ve made it to nicotine-free vaping and have managed to quit smoking as a result of it, congratulations! That’s super awesome! You’ve leveled up your health, hygiene, and olfactory acceptance level all in one go! I hope you keep it up. While that’s a super awesome change for you and those who need to smell you, please recognize that to an observer, e-cigs are assumed to have nicotine and still look like smoking. Even if you’ve gone nicotine-free, your use of e-cigs promotes the tobacco industry just the same.

For that reason alone, I think it’s prudent that VHS disallows the use of any smoking/vaping products, and any products that might be reasonably perceived as such, in the space.* Tobacco companies come from the same sort of evil as casinos and Zynga, and none of them deserve VHS’s implicit support.

And just to address the trolls, yes, I would make the same argument for having alcohol in the space, except I imagine that’s too far a cultural stretch for this space.

* It is easy enough to go outside, and no, the hallway is not “outside”. There is sunscreen in the kitchen area if you need any. :stuck_out_tongue:

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This started off, think of the children.

Either way. When my daughter does see someone smoking ecigs,
I will simply explain that it is a honorably addition and they can’t stop.

She is only 6, so exampling the full complexity of it all is just not
possible at this point.

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No it does not. Its the complete opposite. The tobacco industry has been fearful of this and been pushing against ecigs ever since they hit the market.

I think a better perspective would be to promote ecigs, and get as many smokers to quit. There is so many incentives to ecigs, and not having to go out side is a big one. If there isn’t an incentive for someone to use an e-cig they keep smoking and be a larger burden on our healthcare system than if they quit.

Society has a negative look at it, which is completely unscientific and based on nothing but social norms.

Do you know how to change society?
Do something socially unacceptable and look good doing it.

I try not to vape infront of kids. I don’t want them to think of it as something they can do.

I believe the best way to prevent kids from smoking - if that’s the general
idea? - is to sit them down at an early age and smoke a cigar with them
while getting them to seriously inhale the smoke.
That way they will never take up the habit.
By preventing teens and younger kids from access to tobacco products we
only encourage their eager curiosity and lets face it that strategy has
failed. Why do you think they put ghastly ads on cigarette packages - it
pays off for the tobacco industry.
If I wanted to put a kid (or anyone) off vaping then I would expose them to
it as early as possible with a flavour that is totally off-putting - but
that’s me.
F

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