Long log house for new Hackspace

General lounge
1

Hello:

Tom is giving away “30+ hemlock and cedar trees” for free. They are yet standing trees in Anmore, or were about two weeks ago, when I conversed with Tom. I did not go to survey them; though, if they are average size (~24 meters) in local forest; then 30 trees - it is a long house! 15 trees, roughly 1180 linear log feet for the stud and 1180 log feet for milling side boards - a whole workshop shell can be constructed. I do not know who is giving a hauling trailer away, I do not have one and who is giving away a lot to set the longhouse on, does anyone? I am pretty certain I could make a bunch of M_NEOCINE scribes for the crew though and, I am very passionate about building it. Another problem we would have with the wiring to install all the computer and electronic equipment and, there are limitations for all logs must be right spiral, sound wood and the same species…

Sorry for not in context post.

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Hey Neo, it’s great that you’re excited about this, and I think it would be awesome if this was practical in the near future, but most of us VHS members are residents of Vancouver, and it’s likely that none of us have land to build on, let alone land that’s situated close to downtown. If you were to eventually build a long house somewhere in the wilderness to house a second hackspace or wood shop, that would be really neat. It just wouldn’t help most of our members here. I don’t own a car, so I can’t easily leave the city.

At this point, there are too many unknowns for me to have much interest. You’ve heard that you can get 30+ trees, but you haven’t received them or even seen them. We don’t have land or tools to build. I have no idea what a M_NEOCINE is. :stuck_out_tongue: If this is a passion of yours, definitely keep it up, and feel free to ask if you need help or tools. We want to see you succeed, even if it’s not a priority for most of us to have a log cabin in the forest.

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For the land issue, I’ve seen log cabins build on the water, Would a floating long house be practical Neo? That could solve a lot of problems!

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Another approach is to consider building a wilderness shelter instead of hackspace. There are many shelters in BC - I’ve been to most of the ones between Vancouver and Joffre Lakes and quite a number on the sunshine coast. A significant number of them are either on crown land or in provincial parks.

Examples:
Keith’s Hut
Elfin Hut
Mt. Steele Cabin
Lake Lovely Water Cabin
Brew Hut
Burton Hut

Each shelter is upkept by different organizations: BC parks board, Alpine Club of Canada, Varsity Outdoors Club etc. A few are also maintained by more private organizations (I think Keith’s Hut falls under this category).

I don’t know the exact requirements necessary to build wilderness cabins on government land, but I assume there is a permit process. If you can demonstrate that building a cabin in a certain location will be a benefit to the public, I bet you would have a shot. You might need to call up the government (provincial or federal, depending on who owns the land) in order to figure out the process.

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Full size long house measures 10 m. by 20 m. and about 9 m. high.

Lets have this discussion at the table in our war room.

Rob_MacKenzie discourse@talk.vanhack.ca wrote:Rob_MacKenzie
November 14
For the land issue, I’ve seen log cabins build on the water, Would a floating long house be practical Neo? That could solve a lot of problems!

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6

Thank You Logan for listing these, I never been to any of them. The princip about a shelter is that one in it will have to work and make something therefore to survive in that shelter.

With respect to permits, I have the problem because it is all done senslesly through computers. I am sorry, I do not know what this computer sends, how it sends it, what text it sends, this drives me crazzy.

I learned about construction for cultural purposes application in which land and logs are granted up on approval. Though, there is nothing cultural about e-mails, or on-line applications and, it is nothing like building. I cannot think properly with the “on-line”, not to say anyhing about building properly. All we need is people with some hand tools and the will to build it and ofcourse some brains to find most comfortable place for it.

Lets take it to the table in the war room.

Logan_Buchy discourse@talk.vanhack.ca wrote: Logan_Buchy Keyholder
November 14
Another approach is to consider building a wilderness shelter instead of hackspace. There are many shelters in BC - I’ve been to most of the ones between Vancouver and Joffre Lakes and quite a number on the sunshine coast. A significant number of them are either on crown land or in provincial parks.

Examples:
Keith’s Hut
Elfin Hut
Mt. Steele Cabin
Lake Lovely Water Cabin
Brew Hut
Burton Hut

Each shelter is upkept by different organizations: BC parks board, Alpine Club of Canada, Varsity Outdoors Club etc. A few are also maintained by more private organizations (I think Keith’s Hut falls under this category).

I don’t know the exact requirements necessary to build wilderness cabins on government land, but I assume there is a permit process. If you can demonstrate that building a cabin in a certain location will be a benefit to the public, I bet you would have a shot. You might need to call up the government (provincial or federal, depending on who owns the land) in order to figure out the process.

To respond, reply to this email or visit Long log house for new Hackspace - #4 by Logan_Buchy in your browser.

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7

And SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY, FUN, RIGHT WAY, SAFETY.

Logan_Buchy discourse@talk.vanhack.ca wrote: Logan_Buchy Keyholder
November 14
Another approach is to consider building a wilderness shelter instead of hackspace. There are many shelters in BC - I’ve been to most of the ones between Vancouver and Joffre Lakes and quite a number on the sunshine coast. A significant number of them are either on crown land or in provincial parks.

Examples:
Keith’s Hut
Elfin Hut
Mt. Steele Cabin
Lake Lovely Water Cabin
Brew Hut
Burton Hut

Each shelter is upkept by different organizations: BC parks board, Alpine Club of Canada, Varsity Outdoors Club etc. A few are also maintained by more private organizations (I think Keith’s Hut falls under this category).

I don’t know the exact requirements necessary to build wilderness cabins on government land, but I assume there is a permit process. If you can demonstrate that building a cabin in a certain location will be a benefit to the public, I bet you would have a shot. You might need to call up the government (provincial or federal, depending on who owns the land) in order to figure out the process.

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8

Rob: floating long log house could be practical; though not practical to put on the water.

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I am sorry, I hope you guys can wrap your minds around on top, or below the forum text. I am particularly fascinated about the “long log house” because from my archaeological research, this architecture was built in Neolithic time (5000 - 3000 years BCE) in Western Ukraine and it is exactly identical architecture of the North West Coast Longhouse of local Native People. Large, massive post and beam structure that utilizes entire length of (straight conifer) trees, and strong natural appearance with minimal amount of modification of natural look, signifying truly native human habitat - is the long house. The building with four posts along and four posts wide, crossed by long beams, and absence of ridge post in the center, instead of which in support for ridge log are long purlins overlaying main rafters, truly mysterious creation of cosmic type.

The longhouse, it is as practical as it is powerful in all its perspectives. Straight, forward and complex in its simplicity, it can be built in different locations for different purposes - high in the mountains elevated on posts above 8 feet of snow, lower level of which used for workshops and firewood, a private house with nice size garage(s), or a gallery seen through large windows from all around outside, just to name a few.

And it is practical in the way that the 3 meter long posts of which there are 16 in each floor, I can carry by hand on my own (depending on the diameter of posts and moisture content).

The best and most easy to take a look at example of long house is Native Education College (NEC) on Scotia St. and 5th Ave. in Vancouver, very close to old VHS Bunker. Other buildings with the same roof system are: Squamish Indian Band’s North Shore Paintball Gym in North Vancouver nearby Lions Gate Bridge, Totem Hall in Squamish, and this hall in Mt. Currie:

image

The basic plan of this architecture is outlined in figure 1 below.

image
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Figure 1. Abstract side elevation and front elevation of a longhouse without ridge and compensating purlings in roof system.

Such building also can be erected in cress-cross way as in figure 2 below.

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Figure 2. Abstract elevation of a longhouse profiling two cress-crossed buildings.

There are visible errors in sill (bottom) logs; though, these are quick, abstract graphics, I have no time to redraw; logs are never these straight in real life

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Shane: does it bother you that I write about log building? Do you find it off topic and don’t want to see posts about logs anymore? Let me know please.

Meanwhile, I have an update on the trees in Anmore. There is a second growth stand of trees growing on small hill in between two lots on which houses are being constructed. The stand is dominated by large, about 25-30 meters tall Douglas fir trees with fewer western hemlock trees of similar size. There are many smaller, roughly 15 meters tall hemlock trees in under canopy and no large cedar trees. Just because Tom is giving them away does not mean I can get them. There are certainly enough logs in those trees to build a long house; though, they are live trees and I am not O.K. with killing trees. I am sorry ends do not come together for me. I was hoping I would meet someone at the VHS to buddy up on log building and do all those great log building games. That is more than hope, that is the way!

Put it this way, people built these long houses back in Neolithic Period with absence of electric cranes and chainsaws, just with stone tools. If they could do it with primitive technology back then, then it should be hundred times easier to build it today.

In my vision a number of open log buildings would fit wonderfully on the flat open gravel area behind the Vancouver Mill Machineries Plant across the street. This is would be so perfect for False Creek Heritage and the mill is there and the history of log processing, and it is nearby - all ends come together. But, I get bent with all the property entitlement, prices, leases, on-line applications… I just speak from public member’s perspective.

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Not at all! I like it when people share their passions, and if I there’s something I’m not interested in, I can choose not to read about it. I was just trying to be helpful and share the issues I see with you, rather than just ignoring your post.

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This is fascinating to read about, @Neo. Keep it up.

I think there will be many many many difficulties to overcome, and it may not ever be practical to move the whole hackspace to a log longhouse. Building a small cabin somewhere that could serve as a VHS outpost would be a slightly more practical alternative. Imagine, it could have an off-grid power system and amateur radio equipment.

You’ve mentioned your M_NEOCINE scribe project before as though everyone knows what it is. This is not the case! You should do a post on talk that specifically describes this project. If you have made a prototype then you should include some photos of it. I would like to know how it works compared to other scribe tools on the market.

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Why logs?

Logs are big, heavy and they rot. Logs also burn, and you can get splinters, or sticky hands from the sap. They expand a bunch when they are wet, and shrink a bunch when it’s dry. Trees also don’t grow straight so you need expensive equipment to cut them straight.

Have you considered bricks? You could build a brick house. Bricks are easier to make. They are straight and don’t burn like flimsy logs. You don’t need to cut them, and sand them, and stain them, and paint them. Bricks don’t get termites, they are woodpecker proof. You can shit bricks. Bricks are a more superior building material than wood, or straw.

BRICKS>LOGS

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Oh, yea, Thank You Toma for your comment.

Bricks do not look as good as logs, although there are many good looking bricks. I have a couple old ones tagged “Anvil Island”, which I consider collectible. Bricks - they require fireing, and you certainly do not shit them. You must buy every brick from the store. It is just the nature of logs building, architecture (archaic tecture" of log building that attracts me.

I have to admit that to build with bricks in the middle of nowhere far in the forest, you must deliver those bricks, therefore pay full lot of cash, or do all the delivery, where as logs can well be found laying around and far not all logs rot, or get insects, some may last for centuries, preserving mega strength and natural beauty. It is not that I do not like bricks. Brick buildigs can be very warm, beautiful and safer than for instance concrete panel buildings (highrises). With respect to cuttig logs, it depends on a plan of a house, some may require minimal cutting.

“bricks>logs” what less is better!

toma discourse@talk.vanhack.ca wrote: toma Keyholder
November 20
Why logs?

Logs are big, heavy and they rot. Logs also burn, and you can get splinters, or sticky hands from the sap. They expand a bunch when they are wet, and shrink a bunch when it’s dry. Trees also don’t grow straight so you need expensive equipment to cut them straight.

Have you considered bricks? You could build a brick house. Bricks are easier to make. They are straight and don’t burn like flimsy logs. You don’t need to cut them, and sand them, and stain them, and paint them. Bricks don’t get termites, they are woodpecker proof. You can shit bricks. Bricks are a more superior building material than wood, or straw.

BRICKS>LOGS

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15

“BRICKS>LOGS” - bricks bigger than logs. NO! Even though they might have invented a kiln that fires super big bricks, logs are still bigger (even small log is bigger than a brick).

Toma you are delusional.

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This is the least constructive construction discussion ever.

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I agree with you @lukecyca that it is easier and therefore more realistic to construct a cabin than longhouse. I still say that such cabin should be constructed by log post and beam method. And to fit VHS in such cabin, it must be fairly big, at least of a size of current space. In fact, we could build a number of such cabins one next to each other. Where?

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Look on the bright side, it’s the most destructive construction discussion ever.