Wasn’t another part of it about people “using” VHS for their own
commercial purposes as well? As in, it’s okay to be using VHS with a
commercial goal in mind, just be transparent about it and not just use
the people/tools for your own purpose(s).
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I think that fits more under rules like the other suggestions - and we’ve already resolved in a General Meeting to make that an actual rule, beyond just putting it in a wiki.
Quite the opposite I don’t think there is a conflict.
Full disclosure - Disclose your motives and affiliations is required for inclusiveness. Dishonesty among friends is what destroys a community.
Also I agree it is “okay for people to use VHS with a commercial goal in mind, just be transparent about it” and are contributing, not dishonestly using people/tools for their own personal gain.
This sounds like a special case of “be excellent to each other.” Or is it addressing a problem we’ve actually had? Outside of the “hacker’s worrying about Olympic secret police” context? If not, I could think of a hundred rules we could stuff in there that would be more pragmatic, like “plunge the damn toilet when you plug it.”
If we were going to keep something like a “disclose your motivations” rule, I’d love to see a wording that didn’t sound so paranoid. But I’d be even more happy to lose it entirely.
[[PLEASE NOTE: changed the wording on the full disclosure point following an IRC discussion. please take the new wording into account]]
[[Good points made all around so this post is wikified; vote here]]
Full Disclosure vote:
Keep 1
Trash 3
Reword
EDIT: Poll link to the right, thought I would give it a try
Full Disclosure vote:Full disclosure - Disclose your motives and affiliations
The wording is simple
Keep 1
I see when I was quoted, a line separation was lost.
Unfortunately that changed the meaning of what I said. I mean keep
Full disclosure - Disclose your motives and affiliations
I am not suggesting changing it is it appeared without the line separation.
If everything is a wiki then everything must be documented in some way.
Even a name and an email taped on the side would help.
How many times have you overheard something along the lines of
Who made this? Why is it here? Can we touch it? We better not, they could be coming back for it.
I can’t even message you to say “great job!” if I don’t know you were the genius behind thing X.
I like it!
Just need a good way of describing it.
- The documentation needs documentation. – a Bellevue Linux Users Group member, 2005
- Tell us about it - Creating documentation helps VHS, helps your future self and prevents puppies from being shot!
- Change log - Tell us what you changed and why so all of us can learn.
- If a microprocessor gets programed in the woods but there is no documentation, did it really happen?
- Journaling - Documenting what you change helps everyone learn and grow to be better people.
I don’t know if there is a good way of saying it that does not sound like work. Maybe we should add it to the description of “Everything is a wiki” instead of its own point.
- Everything is a wiki - As we are a do-ocracy, it is everyone’s right and responsibility to improve the whole. This includes documenting what you have changed so other can learn from it.
It’s all just farting around until you write it down. The it’s science.
Whelp, obviously when we’re talking about commerical interests and the Principles of Unity, then we’re indireclty talking about a few elephants in the room.
So I’ll mention my own “elephant.”
I’m that guy who’s designing that bike light on a glove thing. (the Guantlit)
I’d like to make a bunch of them and sell them.
I want to see if I can have a business that produces them sustainably, and upholds sustainable values.
I want to learn from people at VHS, at Free Geek and at Start-Up communities.
I want to repay the time that people have spent showing me awesome stuff… By eventually paying it forewords and showing my newfound skills to other people.
I want to be as transparent as possible about how the Gauntlit is made, and where the seperate parts are coming from.
I’m not sure exactly what an “open” project really is… But I believe my project is “open” for the following reasons.
-
So far, nothing about my project is hidden.
-
There are no patents involved.
-
I intend for the circuit schematic that I make for the Gauntlit to be free for all.
Also; I’m not operating out of the concern that anyone at VHS is going to “steal” my idea… simply because I don’t have a problem if someone makes their own Gauntlit-like thingy for their own use…
And I don’t think anyone at VHS would go through the financial investment of buying a bunch of circuit-boards, harnesses and batteries in order to “beat” me to market… At the end of the day, there are easier ways to make money.
Also, I’m happy to compensate people (Like I’m currently compensating the electircal engineer who’s designing my circuit schematic.) … But I also understand that people like to be at Hack Space just to work on what they love to do… And that this commercial interest and talk of money is not really what they’re here for.
So, in that spirit, my plan is to take the time and patience that VHS people have invested into me and pay it forewords; to pass on what I’ve learned to the next person with an idea… and to sponsor projects in the future in the event that I become successful. (There’s a strong possibility that I won’t be successfull)
Also, I should point out that VHS people have been really cool and supportive and I do not believe anyone harbours a belief that I am hiding some sort of agenda… But to dispell that notion, I should inform you guys that I pretty much have no idea what I’m doing; I’m littereally talking to hackers and entrepreneurs and start up people, and I’m learning as I go.
My plan at the moment is; Make a bunch of gizmos before Christmas, and sell them.
Here’s my post with more information about the Gauntlit.
http://imgur.com/gallery/9sgXW
Also, if there’s anything about my project that you feel the need to talk to me about, please send me a message.
I’m new to these threads, and I might miss what you have to say if you don’t send your message directly to me.
Cheers.
Okay, here’s something I don’t like about this “disclose your affiliations” line; I see absolutely no reason why Alex should feel the need to explain himself just because he hopes to someday make money from something he in part develops at VHS. Being able to make money from your skills and ideas should be something VHS supports absolutely.
Let a thousand flowers bloom! (But, uh, lets not do the thing with the cutting down all the flowers as enemies of the state. Awkward expression is awkward.)
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I applaud Alex and wish him all the success in his commercial interest.
Alex, NRC does provide funding to small business startups. Robert and Eric from NRC are interested in the small technical business that come out of VHS, Makerlabs. Reaching out to them is actually a good idea, because they have a lot of contacts and can put business together who need services from each other. A while back in the old space I did a lecture on how to write a patent.
If people are interested I can do that again.
Again I am very happy that you are meeting people in the VHS community. Being able to make money from your skills and ideas IS something VHS supports absolutely.
Much appreciated! I’m currently applying for the Youth Mean Business Grant… But I’ll definitely check out NRC.
I’ve atteneded a seminar on Intellectual Property at Small Business B.C. and my impression about patents was that they were extremelly expensive and, in my case, I think the “Lights on a glove” idea has been around since a clever young peasant decided to just dip his glove in petroleum and light it on fire rather than all that business of carrying around a torch… But I’m sure there are more complicated ideas at VHS worth patenting!
I feel like I need to add that Alex has never made it a secret what project he was working on (good!), and he’s been developing his own skills (also good!) while at VHS, and even hires someone to do some design work! (Better!)
The problem is when it becomes “cell” development; someone comes in with a question/idea, basically gets people to develop stuff for them, and then disappear to integrate it into something else, that makes them money. (BAD!)
While in the former, there’s a general benefit; in the case of the latter, people get used as a tool and except for the person that came in, no one really benefits.
Just my brain farts.
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If you pay a lawyer to write the patent yes.
But you can actually write your own patent. I have just finished writing my forth. To be honest, if you understand your area well enough to make innovation in your area,you can write a patent on something.
The real question is what are you really going to do with your patent.I mostly write patents as leverage when dealing with larger companies.
Huh. I’ve heard that “patent pending” is a good thing to say to investors… maybe I’ll consider it in the future.
Maybe as a joke, we could build a big animatronic stuffed elephant for the VHS lounge… (sorry I just had to add that 
As an off topic FYI, I think the US military actually has a note somewhere on the USPTO website that they reserve the right to steal anyone’s technology to defend themselves in time of war. I may be wrong, but I think I read that there once… (It seems reasonable, as second place in war is not healthy for any nations economy or their citizens generally…)
Makes me wonder how much lead time they give themselves to do that when they are planning something??
Level 9000 Necromancer!
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